Wednesday, August 18, 2010

The mosque isn't about freedom of religion.

(The following contains adult language and some language that is not politically correct.  Do I have to swear? In the immortal words of Marty McFly "Yes, definately George, swear".

Much is being made of the proposed mosque and Islamic "cultural" center being proposed near Ground Zero.  This is not a mountain being made out of a molehill as most liberals and the MSM would like us to believe.  This is about a monument being built in the shadow of a terrorist attack.  To think otherwise is to be to fucking stupid to live.  Let's remember that the non-Islamic supporters of the mosque are the same people who think that sexual predators can be rehabilitated.  They also believe that global warming is man made.  There is more proof that bigfoot exists but that's an argument for another day.

Liberals are quick to point out that to oppose the mosque is a slap in the face of the freedom of religion.  Like most liberal arguments this is easily defeated.  No one is advocating at all that moslems can't practice their cult religion, they just don't want a mosque built anywhere near Ground Zero.  My understanding is that there are plenty of mosques in NYC and the surrounding area.  There is also plenty of land in New York, New Jersey, etc to build so why this particular spot.  I can't imagine it was cheap land.

But the point of this article isn't about the mosque and the terrorist training  cultural center and where it is being built.  No, the point of this is about the Obama's and the left's dhimmitude.  It is being totally exposed on this one topic.  Forget the fact the Obama gave Hamas 900 million dollars just one month into his only term (read about that here) or the fact that Obama is trying to strong arm Israel into giving more land back to the Palestinians or how he is ignoring Iran's nuclear armament advancements.  No, you see Obama is a pragmatist.  Except when he isn't one which is all the time.

The amazing thing to me is how all of a sudden Obama, the MSM and every limp wristed lefty out there are so concerned about the freedom of religion.  These are the same people that are obsessed with keeping Christianity out of our lives at every turn.  They don't want nativity scenes on publice grounds.  You can't display a picture of Christ on your desk or wear a cross to work if you are a school teacher.  They argue that the Founding Fathers (note: not the "founders" but FOUNDING FATHERS!! Fucking liberals!) were deists.  A couple might have been but almost everyone of them worshipped God.  In a church. 

They can find a clause in the Constitution, "the separation of church and state", that doesn't exist.  The believe that almost all Christians are religious zeolots hell bent on forcing each person to attend church every Sunday but give the most destructive religion ever invented a free pass no matter how many terrorist acts this "religion" commits (almost 16,000 since 9/11 check here).  Most against it's own followers.  "The majority of moslems are not terrorists"  they will tell you.  While this may be true, you have to go a long way to find any moslem who will speak out against the violence.  Even farther to find a moslem who will combat the terrorists from his own "religion".

We have a president who doesn't even attend church. He played golf on Christmas day for shitsakes!  The church he attended in Chicago isn't even Christian.  Sure, it claims to serve God and they've completely changed their website, but it's about hatred. Hating America and all us crackers.  Pure and simple.  The sermons there aren't about loving one another.  It does not worhip God, it worships Africa.  That's fine with me.  Just don't call yourself a Christian.  President Soundbite claims the reason he doesn't attend church is because he doesn't want to "be disruptive".  Doesn't stop him from going to NYC to attend a play on Broadway.  But I digress.

Liberals love Islam.  They love it because so many of their own values are present in Islam.  Islam isn't as much a religion as it is a way of life.  Now, I know what you are saying "so is Christianity".  Well, you can say that all you want but you'd be wrong.  Islam governs everything about your life.  What you eat, what you can say, how you marry and whom.  Everything.  This is also what liberals want to achieve.  Total control of us, their subjects.  The biggest difference in the two faiths is that while Islam worships a god, liberals worship a man.  Whether it is Stalin or Mao or Obama, liberal followers worship their leader as he can do no wrong.

The goal of Islam is not to just spread the religion but to control the governments of the countries they inhabit and rule through Sharia Law.  This is the part that liberals don't understand.  They think that Islam can peacefully co-exist with not only other religions, but with their own failed political ideology.  The very basis of Islam will not allow this.  You see, there is no other religion and there is no tolerance.  Don't believe me?  Go to Tehran and attend mass.  Or try to find a synagogue in Saudi Arabia.

Those of us in oppostion to the mosque near Ground Zero are accused of being intolerant.  If "The religion of peace" is so tolerant, let them accept the wishes of the vast majority of Americans and build there mosque elsewhere.  Let them know that they are insulting the people with whom the want to "peacefully co-exist".

But they can't.  They are slaves to Islamic appeasement.  They will bend over backwards to make sure some radical imam is gettinig "fair press" while they and their supporters demand Dick Cheney be tried as a war criminal.

The MSM will write false stories of korans being flushed down the toilet but won't report about radical moslems using bibles for toilet paper.  While radical moslems are chopping off heads, liberals complain that being made to wear a dog collar as a POW is "torture".  Humiliating? Yes, but nothing compared to how I would have degraded them.  Torture?  Not even close. 

What else amazes me is that 70% of Americans don't want the mosqute built.  Why isn't it 85 or 90 percent?  70 percent seems low but then I don't trust most polls anyway.

This isn't about the freedom of religion.  This is about remembering what happened almost nine years ago.  It was moslems who attacked us.  It is moslems who contintue to attack us.  Is it unfair to throw all practicing moslems in the same group?  No.  Not until they clean up their own faith.  They won't because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, they want radical Islam to succeed. It's that simple.


Pam said...

Here's an equally and possibly even more disturbing one.

Rhacodactylus said...

It seems to me that fighting the intolerance of radical Islam with more intolerance is a fundamentally flawed strategy.

Milk River Madman said...

great link. Like how she calls CNN the Crescent News Network.

As you are new here I'll give your comment a free pass. Just point out where, in any section of this piece, I'm intolerant. Not wanting to have the mosque built close to Ground Zero is not intolerant. It's considerate.

Big Shamu said...

Sweet. So we can stop building big Catholic churches so there won't be anymore pedafile priests? Or big assed mormon catherdrals so there won't be anymore old dudes taking multiple under aged "wives"?

Intolerant, you? Well, why do you care what the president did to celebrate Christmas? Shouldn't your concern be how you celebrate? Isn't he free to celebrate or not celebrate in the manner he deems fit? You seem to be intolerant of anyone who enjoys the separation of church and state. Also could you point out the use of the word God in the Constitution? You seem to be intolerant of those of us who don't want to see our public spaces as a battle ground for Top Religion because if you allow one Nativity Scene then every single religion gets their shot at putting up their sacred symbols. But I'm pretty sure you're intolerant of that too.
You sound intolerant of one religion, calling it a cult while ignoring the opinion of some that all religions are cults or fanciful mythologies.

Do I want a mosque built there? Nope but neither do I want a church or synagogue or cathedral. So many people of so many religions (including muslims), faiths, beliefs and non beliefs died on that day that nobody gets special treatment. Blood and fire made many in that building the same. Dead.

fishy said...

Oh-oh, someone poked Shamu. She has a point, the hallowed ones of all religions are equally dead.

Madman, I left my commentary over at Moi's.

Joanna Cake said...

What Big Shamu said. The whole area is multi racial and multi denominational. Let's leave it that way.

Milk River Madman said...

Hmmm. I seem to have bunched some panties with this. My point with how Barry celebrated Christmas is this, he claims to be a Christian and a good one at that, yet did not have time to worship on the day of the birth of Christ but could squeeze in a quick 18.

No where in this post do I advocate the building of any house of worship so I'm confused as to where the cathedral/synagogue comment is coming from. My point with the separation issue is that liberals believe in a clause that doesn't exist. There is no mention about keeping God out of government, just not having one particular religion. Funny how this ammendment is so open to interpetation yet the 2nd amendment is defined in the strictist sense by the left.

Islam does in fact have more characteristics of a cult than almost any form of Christianity IMO. Does that mean that forms of Christianity are cultish? Yes, but they didn't attack the Towers and they aren't trying to build a monument to the victory. If they were, then this post would have been directed at them. Intolerance would durectly imply that I believe they do not have the right to practice their faith. No where in this post is that even implied.

This is a great lefty argument. Rather than debate the substance, yell loud. But that is to be expected. My only intolerance in this post is that I haven't forgotten what happened. The left has. Maybe they are right. We should forgive and forget. Afterall, in their opinion we had it coming. I guess I can try to forget. Maybe that's just what I'll do.

I'll make you lefties a deal. I'll forget about 9/11 and when we get attacked again don't ask me for one dime of money or ounce of support and definately don't point a finger of blame at intolerant people like me. Deal?

Milk River Madman said...

BTW, after 7 days of Ramadan, the religion of peace has carried out 32 terror attacks worldwide resulting in 148 deaths. All other religions combined in the ENTIRE WORLD have carried out 0 attacks resulting in 0 deaths. But I'm intolerant. Forgot.

chickory said...

its private property. under us law, they have all the freedoms enjoyed by anyone else to proceed. it is however in epic poor taste and in your face nah nah nah nahs.

listen, im with you on Islam but you are wasting your time telling about it because nobody wants to own judgement - nobody wants to be called intolerant.

To Rhacodactylus: your reasoning is one of the talibans favorites: they laugh about how they exploit the very thing you just wrote. google it. you'll see.

Big Shamu said...

Don't you ever fucking believe I've forgotten what happened that day. Julie Geis reminds me every day just exactly what terror is. In NY for work from KC, in Tower Two, calling her life partner to say that they were telling Julie to stay put while they tried evacuating the first struck tower. In an office doomed to be above the second strike. Don't you EVER FUCKING tell me that I've forgotten. But you know who else are terrorists? Tim McVeigh. Henderson and McKinney. I don't see you on a Vigilance Watch for them.

Since you're sharing your opinions on Church and State, and it appears you believe the separation does not exist, what is it you do believe exists?

I notice you didn't point out the use of the word God in the Constitution. More than likely because it's not there. On the paper. Perhaps in the King James Version...

Milk River Madman said...

Yes it is private property. But NYC had the opportunity to negate this project. They could have done it for a meriad of reasons. Happens all the time here for reasons far worse than this.

Glad you haven't forgotten. You are in the liberal minority. As far as McVeigh and the like, I didn't have a blog then. Otherwise I'd have taken them to task as well. Funny though how liberals rail against him, and others like him, so hard but won't speak out against radical Islam as forcefully.

Show me where there is a divided line in church and state in the Constitution and I'll bow to you. As far as the word "God" is concerned, you are correct it doesnt exist. But to pretend that this country wasn't founded on Christian principles, and that the Founding Fathers weren't Christians, is to ignore why it was settled and what they believed in.

I know my history pretty well and there weren't a whole lot of moslem immigrants flocking to our shores for hundreds of years. The one's who did start coming origianlly did so because of the exrtemists.

The Marine anthem begins "From the Halls of Montezuma to the shores of Tripoli" Do you know why? It's because Jefferson sent Marines to Tripoli to rescue enslaved American sailors that moslems had captured. That's why.

Pam said...

The Mosque -- isn't about freedom of religion. But they are using our own freedoms to advantage. Similar to how civil rights were achieved in the 60's -- through the courts. And rightly so and with great planning and foresight, something truly worthwhile was achieved. Flash forward to now, and I'm sorry, but I see it as more of an infiltration and agenda.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, if there is a coming religious war, put me down for the side that doesn't wear the burka. Sure, every religion has its nut-jobs (multi-wife Mormons, etc) ... but I don't see Mormons flying planes into buildings to make a political statement.

The thing is, Islam is more way of life than religion. And it is put *above* government, and then that brings in the danger of the sharia law and also those who live beyond the law. And I know, I know, I've much to learn on this subject. But that's the way I see it. I will be more than glad to be proven that tolerance goes both ways - our tolerance for those practicing it and THEIRS for whatever is being practiced by individuals here in the US and elsewhere.

I'm qualified to talk Tim McVeigh too, I was downtown OKC the day he blew up a federal building. But what about his good buddy Terry Nichols, who was recently on a hunger strike in prison because his food has too high of a carb content or some such nonsense. Of course there will always be the lunatic fringe.

Be tolerant all you want, but please don't be complacent. Really, I don't care when, where or if there is a mosque near the twin towers site. And in my younger days I'd be arguing the freedom of religion point also. But now in my middle age, I just smell a rat.

Milk River Madman said...

Well done.

moi said...

Pam hit the nail on the head when she said Islam is a way of life, more than a religion. And it's a way of life that is based on violence and subjugation, not tolerance and peace. Christianity, Judaism, et al at least pay lip serve to those concepts.

So, Shamu, I agree with you 100 percent that ALL religions are subversive to some extent or another. The fundamental difference is, most people who eventually grow up to disagree with the tenets of Catholicism, Judaism, Mormonism, et al, are free to leave these religions. If they are not, they have the full weight of the United States judicial system behind them. Islam IS a judicial system.

Furthermore, pedophiles exist regardless of their religion. So it's a paper tiger to say that Catholicism is equal in its horrors to Islam because some of its priests bugger young children. They bugger young children because they are monsters, not because they are Catholics. What, would you say no one should be plumbers because a minority of them also cheat on their taxes?

And while I would never pass a law to stop these folks from purchasing the land and paying for the building, I believe as Chickory does that it is in exceptionally bad taste and unbelievably offensive to the entire nation to do so.

Finally, yes, we should judge. How can one get through life and figure out how best to be a good person without discerning right from wrong? Above and beyond any other religion that exists on this earth, the basic tenets of Islam are just that: WRONG.

Karl said...

Good afternoon MRM,

Sorry I'm so late to this I was offline for a few days. I was close enough to the crash at the Pentagon on 911 to have smoldering ash falling on me. And knew several fine people with the New York Port Authority that passed when the towers fell. There's a place in my heart for anyone that personally knew someone lost that day. This mosque is not about tolerance it is about intolerance. Had the people behind it wanted to avoid offending the family's of those lost that day and the nation that was attacked. They could've made the facility multi-denominational. The facility at the Pentagon close to where the crash site was serves many religions including Muslims. Had they truly wanted to embrace cooperation and understanding as they have stated, the facility could have been multi-denominational. Instead they will have a prayer room so they can control who will pray there. They even want to control which Muslims pray there.

I'll end by posting this quote: Akbar Ahmed, Ibn Khaldun Chair of Islamic Studies at American University, while noting that blaming all Muslims for 9/11 was "ridiculous", said:
I don't think the Muslim leadership has fully appreciated the impact of 9/11 on America. They assume Americans have forgotten 9/11 and even, in a profound way, forgiven 9/11, and that has not happened. The wounds remain largely open and when wounds are raw, an episode like constructing a house of worship, even one protected by the Constitution, protected by law. Becomes like salt in the wounds.